**** Welcome to the "LuteBot Quarterly" **** - the free electronic lute journal - *** #6, Spring 1999 **** *** by Federico Marincola *** The "LuteBot Quarterly" serves to disseminate information on the lute and its charming literature. Each issue contains one or more articles, plus some lute tab source scripts. This document contains inline ASCII graphics which look best unformatted, in a monospace font like Courier. * To receive the latest issue of the "LuteBot Quarterly", send an email to: * To receive the following past issues of the "LuteBot Quarterly", send a request to: : ---> LuteBot Quarterly #1, Winter 1998: Vincenzo Capirola and his Lute Book - 1517 (by Federico Marincola) ---> LuteBot Quarterly #2, Spring 1998: Adrian Le Roy's "A Briefe and easye instruction" - 1568 (a synopsis, by Ian Harwood) ---> LuteBot Quarterly #3, Summer 1998: The "Honorable homme Maistre Guillaume Morlaye, marchand bourgeoys de Paris" (by F. Marincola) ---> LuteBot Quarterly #4, Autumn 1998: The "Raimondi Manuscript - 1601" an Italian lutebook (by Franco Pavan) ---> LuteBot Quarterly #5, Winter 1999: The Calichon and the Mandora (by Pietro Prosser) * To receive my Electronic Brochure, send an email to * For further information about the lute and about me, and for links to interesting lute sites, tablature editors, etc, visit my Lute Page: http://www.marincola.com * To subscribe to "liuto-it", the Italian Lute Mailing List, send an email to , with the following line in the body of the message: subscribe liuto-it --------------------------------------------------------------------------- **** Copyright and dissemination **** | Under the Berne Convention, this document, where not otherwise specified, | is Copyright (c) 1999 by Federico Marincola (lute@marincola.com), all rights | reserved. Permission is granted for it to be reproduced electronically on any | system connected to the various networks which make up the Internet, Usenet, | and FidoNet so long as it is reproduced in its entirety, unedited, and with this | copyright notice intact. Web sites are included. Individual copies may | also be printed for personal use. This document was produced for free redistribution. If you paid money for it, not only did you do so unnecessarily, but none of the money went to the person who did the work of producing the documents. You need not obtain special permission to quote parts of this document for academic research purposes, as long as you cite the source. If you would like to offer suggestions and ideas, please email me at . -------------------------------------------------------------------------- *** Table of contents *** Foreword -- by F. Marincola Part I -- "The Lady of the Lute": an unpublished interview with Diana Poulton (1977), by Corrado Alba I.1 -- Introduction I.2 -- The Interview I.3 -- About Diana Poulton I.4 -- About me (Corrado Alba) Part II -- Jokes from the Internet: "Whose Job?" <--- NEW!!! Part III -- About Federico Marincola Part IV -- A lute piece by John Dowland: "Can She Excuse" -------------------------------------------------- Foreword -- by F. Marincola In 1976, when I decided to begin playing the lute, I sent a letter to Diana Poulton, asking for advice. At that time I was a completely unknown young Italian guitar student, and she was a celebrity. Ten days later I received her answer: "Dear Federico Marincola, thank you for your letter which I received this morning [...]". During that school year we exchanged several letters, and she sent me lots of lute tablatures and instructions of how to play them. The following summer I finally managed to follow a couple of courses with her, in Urbino (Italy) and in Cheltenham. ----> You can see a snapshot of Diana giving me a lute lesson in Urbino (1977) at . At that time I was 22 and she was 74. I kept in touch with Diana for several years: she gave me lessons, provided me with TONS of lute tablatures and wrote some letters of recommendation which enabled me to receive a couple of grants from the Dutch Government and the British Council. And, most of all, she taught me how to LOVE the lute and how to be generous and respectful towards my pupils and my colleagues. Without doubt we all miss her ... *** A few words about the following interview: it was a very interesting discussion between Diana and Corrado Alba. To publish it is something of a responsibility, as it is a sort of "Spiritual Testament" of the Lady of the Lute. My old friend Corrado gave me the raw transcription of the original tapes, which needed some correcting. As you know my English is more or less OK, but NOT perfect. To play safe, I had it checked by a friend of mine, the English violin play Nick Robinson (thanks a lot Nick!), and I also asked Ian Harwood (thank you Ian!) to supervise my editing of the script(Ian is the President of the Lute Society, and was one of the best pupils and friends of Diana). I exchanged several emails and phone calls with Ian, and at the very end we decided to leave the interview more of less as it was. The English sounds rather "colloquial", but Ian suggested not to "turn it into absolutely correct written English", as it would lose all its spontaneity. I am most grateful to Corrado Alba, who religiously kept this interview in a safe place for all these years. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Part I -- "The Lady of the Lute": an unpublished interview with Diana Poulton (1977), by Corrado Alba I.1 -- Introduction I met Diana Poulton for the first time in July 1977, at the Lute Summer Course of Urbino (Italy). Diana (she was already 74!) was very pleased with the success of the course, with the artistic beauty of Urbino and its environment and with the warm welcome that she received from all her pupils, especially Federico Marincola and myself, very attentive to any need or desire she could have (she was a very easy-going person, anyway!). In Urbino I lived in the same hotel where she was, in the center of the town, and often we had breakfast and dinner together at the same table. I found the course really fascinating (at that time I was a business manager by profession and a lutenist by election). I was avidly absorbing and tasting with joy every word said by Diana, and every note coming out from her lute. ----> Diana and me, during a lute lesson in Urbino (1977): . At the end of the course, she accepted to spend a week with my family in Rome and to be taken around by Federico or myself to the Cappella Sistina, to the museums, to the Opera in Caracalla and so on. She became a very good friend of my wife, to whom she gave for gift a splendid English cross of exquisite features, that had belonged to her mother, a marvelous present that we treasure very much. What a generous woman she was! ----> You can admire Diana's golden cross at When she was back to England Diana sent me a beautiful letter of thanks... ----> A facsimile of this letter is at While she was staying at my place I asked Diana if I could interview her. She immediately accepted. Unfortunately I did not prepare in advance the questions, so the interview reflects my modest knowledge of the subject... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I.2 -- The Interview This interview was given in Rome, in my apartment in via Gran Sasso, 70, the 29th July 1977. Q) Mrs Poulton, you dedicated most of your life to the lute and its music. When did you first start getting interested and how did you first "encounter" John Dowland? A) I first heard the lute soon after the first World War, when I was about fifteen or sixteen. My mother was a friend of Arnold Dolmetsch and his wife Mabel and she took me to the concerts they used to give in London and I heard Dolmetsch playing. He wasn't very good technically but when he played simple pieces, his sound was enchanting and this was what really made me want to play the lute myself. And as soon as I began to explore the repertory for the lute, I became interested in John Dowland. At first his pieces were much too difficult for me to play, but as I gradually improved my technical ability I began to play more and more his music. Little by little I became fascinated with his music and also fascinated with his personality and I began collecting his music and trying to find all that I could about him. Q) Is it true that he was a somewhat strange character? Is true that he acted in Europe as a spy for the Queen? A) He was definitively a very strange character. For example, when he went to France, he was converted to the Roman Catholic faith, I think, by the warmth and color of the ceremonial. When he returned to England, there is no evidence that he practiced the Catholic faith and I think he came back to the Protestantism because the first works he ever had printed were harmonizations for the English Psalter, which was, of course, a Protestant Psalter. When he applied for a job at Court in 1594, after the death of John Johnson, he thought, or better to say he said he thought, that it was his faith which had prevented him from being granted the post he wished for. But I am not at all convinced this was so. As matter of fact Queen Elizabeth had protected and supported the composer William Byrd, who had been prosecuted for recusancy, and she kept him at the Royal Chapel against many protests from her Protestant courtiers. However, after this disappointment Dowland went to Italy, where he became involved with some Catholics who were plotting in Florence the overthrow of Elisabeth. But when he found what dangerous connections he was making and how he himself might be accused of taking part in this plot, he left rapidly and went back to Nuremberg where he wrote a whole explanation of what was going on, giving the names of the English plotters and excusing himself by saying that he had nothing to do with this. He sent this letter to Sir Robert Cecil. Sir Cecil was one of the very powerful courtiers at that time who had signed the permit for him to travel abroad. It has been suggested that Dowland had been sent abroad as a spy, but I don't think so. The whole tone of the letter he wrote from Nuremberg shows a man in panic at what might have happened to him. Q) Can you tell some amazing stories about him and his life? A) He was always getting himself into curious situations. For instance he seems to have been a friend of the notorious pirate, Digory Piper, and he even wrote a Pavan and a Galliard for this pirate. There are many other stories of this kind. When he was appointed to the Court of Christian IV of Denmark, he was paid the highest salary that had ever been paid to a musician at that time. It was equal to that of an admiral. Nevertheless, after he had been there a few years, he got himself into desperate money troubles. He would draw his salary in advance, but he got again into debt on all sides. Christian IV tried to help him by paying him a sum of six hundred daler, more than his salary for one year. Still he seems to have contracted debts and on one occasion when he went to England he was entrusted with money to buy instruments and he eventually came back with neither instruments nor money. Q) Did he write most of his compositions when he was finally appointed to the court of England? A) Not at all. When he was finally appointed to the court of James I he wrote very, very little solo music. Either his inspiration dried up or he was kept so busy at court that he did not have time, but, whatever the reason was, very, very few solos can be dated to this period. Another reason could be that the fashion in music had changed at that time, and Thomas Campion and Robert Johnson had got themselves installed at court to provide the music for the fantastic extravagant masques that were produced at court. There is one very revealing set of accounts regarding one of these masques where Robert Johnson was paid forty-five pounds for writing the music, whereas John Dowland was paid two pounds-ten shillings only. This must have annoyed John Dowland very much. Anyway although his particular kind of music was becoming out of fashion, his popularity was still maintained among the music loving public right up to the time of his death (and considerably after his death), and his music was known and loved all over Europe. Q) At that time there was a separation between the court music and the music of the people? Or there was some connection between? A) There was certainly a separation. What was being produced for the court was something very special, for these enormously extravagant masques costed thousands of pounds to produce. But it can be said that at the time of Queen Elizabeth there was a connection between the court music and the music of the people. The connection was given by the ballads. There were hundreds of popular tunes like "Fortune My Foe", "Walsingham", etc. written to commemorate battles, to recount storms or the birth of monstrosities, or criminal stories. They served in a sense like today newspapers. These tunes were also used by professional musicians. The greatest musicians of this period like William Byrd and John Dowland took these tunes and used them as the basis for sets of variations which could be quite long and elaborate, but all based on these popular tunes, so that you get this complete interaction between popular music and music of the court which has perhaps never been equaled again in England. Q) After having published all the solo music of John Dowland and a book on his life, are there other works of Dowland that you are planning to bring to a new life? A) I can't say I have published all the solo works that Dowland wrote because new manuscripts are coming to light all the time and quite recently some books have come to light which I didn't know when I made the first collection. I'm now working on a new edition of all the Dowland song books. These songs are already known from the edition that was prepared in the 1920's by E. H. Fellowes. But this version has many drawbacks. Particularly, it lacks in many cases additional voices which should be added to the solo version. For instance, in the second book, some of the most beautiful songs like "Lacrimae" and "I Saw My Lady Weep" should have a sung bass. The bass is given separately and the words are given, written under the bass line and they are listed at the beginning of the book as songs for two voices. There is no doubt that Dowland's intention was that the bass should be sung. There are also in some of the later books, instances where Dowland wanted three other voices to join at the repetition of the chorus. This is very beautifully shown in a song called "Tell Me True Love". The effect of this is extraordinary. I hope to put together all this material in a new edition which will be published soon. I am also including in each book the alternative version for four voices, which was not included in the Fellowes' book. The book was printed in a volume of "Musica Britannica", but in that volume no tablature was given for the lute part, only a transcription, and nowadays most lutenists really prefer to play from tablature. Tablatures will be included in the new edition. Q) How do you judge the role of Italy in the history of the lute? A) The role of Italy is immensely important. Italy was in fact the first country in which the lute was really developed. We know a little about its history at the end of the fifteenth Century and we know something about famous players like Pietro Bono and their important contribution to the diffusion of the instrument. These famous Italian players were in demand and traveled to many courts of Europe. The first printed music appeared in Italy in the book of Francesco Spinacino in 1507. No other country in Europe had printed lute music for some years after. The greatest of the early virtuoso players was an italian, Francesco da Milano. He attained a degree of virtuosity and brilliance on the lute unequaled by any other musician. He also carried composition for the lute to a far greater degree of sophistication than that reached before. He was famous throughout Europe and was known even in England where the lute was developed considerably later. In 1546 an enormous outpouring of books of lute music appeared. Some of those are not of the highest quality but some have very beautiful music. Italy went on using the lute without a break well into the seventeenth Century, when instruments like the theorbo or chitarrone were developed for the basso continuo, and were used extensively in operas and large-scale works of all kinds. Many beautiful Italian songs come from that period and music for lute, archlute, theorbo and chitarrone can be found quite late into the seventeenth Century. Q) One of the most controversial question among the experts in this area is whether or not the lute was used in Spain and why the vihuela, according to the opinion of several experts, replaced the lute. Some people argue that, since the lute had been introduced into Europe by the Moors, the Spanish people preferred the vihuela for "patriotic" reasons, others say for technical reasons, because in their opinion the vihuela can produce a more "rhythmic" sound. What is your opinion? A) The lute was undoubtedly brought to Spain by the Arabs. There are accounts of famous players: one, for instance, was called Siriab, who played at the Ottoman court and there are accounts of the beauty of his playing. There are numbers of drawings of Arabs playing the lute, as well as drawings of Christians playing the lute. For instance in the "Cantigas de Santa Maria" you can see in the little drawing introducing each "cantiga" pictures of lute players, some of them dressed in Christian costumes side by side with players dressed in Arabic costumes. There is also a very interesting picture in a book by Alfonso El Savio, who was responsible for collecting the "Cantigas". He wrote a book on chess and in this book there is a picture of a Christian woman playing chess with an Arabic woman and beside them is sitting an Arabic woman playing a lute. In the same book you can see a picture of a Christian knight and a Moorish knight sitting together playing chess with their spears put in the ground outside, stuck in the ground to show that they are in peace with each other. The whole history of the relationship between Arabs and Christians in Spain is one of immense complexity. There were long periods in which they lived side by side in a complete state of amity. There were even occasions when Christians would allay themselves with Arabs to fight against other Christians if it served their purpose. In the same way Moors would allay themselves with Christians in order to fight against other sectors of Moors. In conclusion I think the pictures in the book of Alfonso El Savio is self explanatory and there can be no doubt that all this time the lute was played both by Christians and Moors. In very early Spanish paintings you can see more lutes represented than vihuelas. Coming a little later, we find that both sisters of the emperor, Charles V, were renowned for their lute playing. They both came and spent the end of their lives at their brother's court when their husbands died and they were admired for their lute playing and they had a number of lutes which were listed in the royal archives. Also at the court of Philip II there were a number of lutes as belonging to the royal collection. There are many, many other documents of the period describing a group of dancers as dancing to a lute as well as many paintings of lute players. Paintings by El Greco and by most of the famous painters of the period very frequently show lutes being played by angels. Playing the lute appears to have been an angelic occupation (which, considering the type of instrument, must have taken up a lot of their time). There are quite a number of mentions to the lute in the literature of the period. For ex. in the book "Libro del Bueno Amor" the author, an archpriest, speaks of the use of lute in Spain. There is a very interesting scene in the famous play "La Celestina", where one of the protagonist speaks to a servant and says to him:- Sing to me- and the servant takes up a lute and begins to sing and what he sings is a Romance about the emperor Nero, the same Romance set by Bermudo in his book, both for the vihuela of six courses and the vihuela of seven courses. So here you have precisely the same Romance set both for the lute and the vihuela. Q) But, if the lute was played in Spain, why is there no music specifically for it? Why all the music that is written is described as being music for vihuela? A) Well, I think we have to come back to Italy for an explanation about this. The great musician Francesco da Milano, in 1536 titled a book of his music published in Naples "Intavolatura de Viola o Vero Lauto". Now in this case the music is certainly not for a "viola da gamba". It's quite clearly for a "viola da mano" and here you can see that the "viola da mano" and the lute are treated in exactly the same manner and the music suitable for one is considered to be suitable for the other. It's interesting of course that this was published in Naples which at that time was under the domination of Spain, so that it's quite possible that the "viola da mano" and the vihuela were sharing the same type of music with the lute, both in Spain and in Italy. Apart from this book by Francesco da Milano and a little book about how to read tablature with "viola da mano", I know no other music printed in Italy mentioning the "viola da mano". The obvious conclusion is that all the music, though it was called "Intavolatura de Viola" or other titles mentioning vihuela, was in fact played [also] on the lute. It's difficult to explain why this curious fashion has happened. And it's most curious that the vihuela itself has been displaced by the five-courses guitar, which musically was an inferior instrument. Now there is nothing to say why a particular socio-political environment can make an inferior musical instrument preferred above an instrument as complete in itself as the vihuela of six or seven courses. Q) Just what happened later to the lute itself in other countries in Europe! A) Exactly. In France, in the seventeenth Century, eventually the eleven courses lute was supplanted by the guitar, a clearly inferior instrument if compared to the lute. Although very few of the great composers wrote for the french guitar, you find pictures of it being played all the time. I have not been able to find a definitive answer to these cases of an inferior instrument supplanting an instrument of superior capacity and I think that the adoption of the vihuela might have been an act as capricious as the adoption of the five course guitar in its place in the late sixteen and early seventeenth Century. Q) The explanation could be that an inferior instrument like the five courses guitar was played by everyone, and was very easy to play, whereas the vihuela required a more difficult technical approach. What do you think about? A) Yes, it's quite true that the guitar was an easy instrument to play. In the great dictionary by Sebastian Covarrubias Orosco "Tesoro de la lengua castellana o española", Madrid 1611, he comments on this, and in writing his definition of the vihuela he laments that it is no longer used and he says that "now the guitar is nothing but a cow-bell, so easy to play, especially when strummed, that there is not a stable-boy who is not a musician of the guitar". But the fact that you could strum on the guitar in an easy way like this doesn't really account for the disappearing of the vihuela from among the court musicians at a time when the lute was still used in all other parts of Europe. It seems an inexplicable problem. Q) Now we come to the big question, the reason for the disappearing of the lute after a dominance of the European musical scene for 3-4 Centuries. Some people say that the instrument, with the continuous addition of strings, became more and more complicated (I read somewhere that an average player, to play for 3-4 hours, had to spend at least eight hours to tune all the strings) and the music became more and more complex. What is your opinion? A) The character of lute music began to change in the early years of the seventeenth Century. For instance, if you look at the music of Robert Johnson you will find that is beginning to turn away from the contrapuntal structure of the earlier music. The music tends to be polarized between treble and bass and this coincides with the addition of more strings in the bass. By about 1616, they were using three and four diapasons and courses over and above the normal six of the lute. This process was carried on in France and there they gradually increased the number of courses up to eleven. And you can trace this gradual change from the contrapuntal style to the style polarized between treble and bass and you can also see the beginning of what they call "style brise'". In this style they would take a chord and turn the chord itself into a series of notes which were indeed the melody. This would be constructed on the bass and the treble would then consist of the notes of the chord. It would then supplanted by another chord and another series of patterns would be constructed from that series of notes which go to make up the chord. This began to go together with a far more elaborate ornamentation than had been used generally in Renaissance music. It's a very beautiful style and a style that has to be played with great freedom. This is particularly true for the unbarred preludes, where you have no indication of time marks, no bar and the whole thing is played in a free way. This music went on in France up to about 1670 and then began to die away, although one great composer, De Visee, continued to compose this way into the beginning of the eighteen Century. However, as the lute began to die out in France, it began to take on a new life in Germany and there you find up to 13 and even 14 courses being introduced. Q) How the German music of this period compares with the French one? What about Bach lute music? Can you say something about Baroque ornamentation? A) At first the German music was extremely influenced by the French one, but then gradually began to develop a style of its own, with composers like Baron, Le Sage de Richee, who was a French but living in Germany, and other great baroque composers. Bach music was not originally composed for the lute but for keyboard instruments and was subsequently arranged for the lute by other composers. Baroque ornamentation is another characteristic of this period which needs great care in its application. The ornamentation on the lute is, of course, in many ways similar to the ornamentation on other instruments of the period and there are many books of this period which deal with the question of ornamentation and exactly how the ornament should be played and where they should be applied. Manuscripts of Baroque music are heavily and carefully ornamented so that we do know what kind of ornamentation was intended at this period. Another interesting characteristic of German lute baroque music is the use of the lute in small chamber groups. You get sonatas and suites written for the lute with a flute, a viola-da-gamba, and a violin or perhaps a lute, gamba and two violins. Small combinations of this sort were extremely popular and there is a very big literature of this kind which up to now has not yet been fully explored. Anyone who is interested in having music for small group like these will find it a rich field for research. Q) The Dowland music recorded nowadays, in my opinion, has very little ornamentation. Is that right? What kind of ornaments were used in that period ? A) Indications how to use ornamentation are given right from the period when we begin to get printed music for the lute. The earliest description of the use of ornaments comes in Capirola's book, written out about 1517, where he describes the use of two ornaments. The next book to contain signs for the use of ornaments is by Borrono and was printed in 1546. Another book by Borrono was printed in 1548 and also contains ornament signs. English manuscripts contain ornament signs from very early since the appearance of manuscripts in England. Many of these manuscripts are exceedingly heavily ornamented and it is my opinion that ornamentation was applied more heavily in England in the period in which Dowland was writing, than anywhere else in Europe. We do get descriptions of ornamentation in Nicolas Vallet's books. In his first book which was printed in 1615 he describes two ornament sign. One is for an appoggiatura from above, the other is for a trill. In a later book, he describes another "grace", as he calls it, and that is a vibrato. Now vibrato had been used on the lute in Europe for some considerable time. Venegas de Henestrosa in his "Libro de cifra nueva para tecla, harpa y vihuela", which was printed in 1557, describes an appoggiatura from above and also a vibrato, although the word vibrato is not used, but he describes this ornament by saying that you need to put the finger on the string and the fret and then wave the hand in the air. This can only be a vibrato. Vibrato, as far as it is used with moderation, seems to be something that should be used in lute music. Marin Mersenne in his "Harmonie Universelle" (1637), says that vibrato was used so much in the past that it had become almost a vice, but he says also something very valid also today, i.e. that it is just as wrong to omit the vibrato altogether as it is to use too much of it. Q) There is undoubtedly nowadays a growing interest in the lute and its music. How do you see the present situation of the lute in the musical word? A) Yes, you are right. In the last ten to fifteen years the growth of interest in the lute has been enormous. For many years before the Second World War, I was the only person playing the lute professionally in England. After the war, I was joined by Desmond Dupre' and then by Julian Bream. Gradually the interest grew and in 1956 Ian Harwood, one of the most active pupils of mine, with my support founded the Lute Society. At our first meeting we only had about 20 to 30 people present, and now we have about 800 members. There is also a Lute Society of America and the lute is being very much cultivated also in Japan. Many good players have appeared in many parts of Europe and now the whole tendency is towards playing the lute with authentic technique on lutes built to authentic designs. The very heavy lutes which were produced just after the Second World War are not popular now and makers are concentrating on producing light lutes with the clear, soft type of tone that a lute should produce. And I think that most of the young players today feel that the lute responds much more satisfactorily to an authentic technique than it does if it is played with a kind of compromised technique using nails and the right hand perpendicular to the strings. Q) You mean the technique generally associated with playing the guitar. But what are the indications given in the instruction books of the time? A) Most of the writers who wrote about the playing of this type of instrument, both lute and vihuela, say there are people who play with the nails, but always they point out that the best players did not use nails. Fuenllana who wrote a very detailed set of instructions for playing the vihuela, has what I think is a revealing passage. He says he does not advise to play with any kind of invention like using the nails, because "it is in the flesh of the finger that the spirit lies". Over and over again you get the same remark that all the best players play with the flesh of the fingers and the best sound is produced in this way. Also they emphasize that you must play both strings of the double courses on the lute. With the hand in the guitar position, the fingers tend to be thrown on the front of the pair of strings and only strike one string, and for this reason I think that the old position of the hand, in which the little finger is placed on the belly of the lute, is the best one because this brings the hand very low and in the position where you can put the tip of your finger onto the two strings of the course and play them simultaneously. An this I believe is the whole purpose of the placing of the hand on the soundboard. Nothing to do with an inability to find your place if you don't have it placed on the soundboard, nor of course it is a question of supporting the lute. The little finger has to be very lightly placed on the soundboard. But in my opinion, the lute only reveals its true quality of sound if it is played with the right hand in this low position and without nails. Q) Are both positions (the "guitar" position and the one you just mentioned) described in the old methods and were they both used by the various players? A) There are in fact two positions in which the right hand can be held for playing the lute. One is with the thumb inside the fingers. In this position the hand comes across the end of the lute an a position almost identical with that in which the very, very early lute was played with the plectrum. In this position the fingers are stretched out much more straight they are in the other position. In the second position the thumb is held outside the fingers and in this context only, the hand is more like the position of the hand on the guitar. Most of the players who recommend the position of the thumb inside the fingers, say that you can play much faster that way than you can with the hand in any other position. But there was a radical change about at the end of the sixteenth Century. As far as I know, Besardus in his book "Thesaurus Harmonicus" (1603) is the first musician to describe the position of the thumb as being held outside the fingers. Thomas Robinson in his "Schoole of Musicke" which was printed in the same year, still recommends that the thumb should be moved inside the fingers. From the time that Besardus mentions this change of position, I think there is no other mention of this position, except that Michael Schäffer once told me that Weiss played with his thumb inside. He said that he had found a statement by Weiss saying that everyone else, at that time, was playing with the thumb outside but that he preferred to play with the thumb inside. Now I can't give the source of this because at that time Schäffer told me about this, he didn't tell me the source. There is one very interesting comment on these two positions of the right hand. In a manuscript written out by Stobaeus, a German, in about 1619, he comments that Dowland started to play with the thumb inside the fingers, but that he changed and that he was playing, in the latter part of his life, with the thumb outside the fingers. He also mentions that the great italian player, Laurencini, also played with his thumb outside and so did Gregorio Howett, the most famous of the Netherlands players of that period. He mentions a number of other players who must have been famous in their time, but whose names don't mean anything to us now. In this comment by Stobaeus it is stated that although it is true that you can play faster in the old position, with the thumb outside you can play far more clearly. Q) It looks like to me that your would recommend the position with the thumb inside. But I noticed that you still play with the thumb outside. Can you explain? A) I must confess I still play with the thumb held outside, because I trained myself mainly by the instructions of Besardus and it was he who mentions the thumb being hold outside in a most dogmatic way. And so that's the way I've always played and now I'm too old to change technique. But I would still recommend the position with the thumb inside. Many of the best players find that, with the very complex music of Francesco da Milano, which needs a tremendous command of speed, they can play better with the thumb inside. Q) One drawback in the lute is that one has no general complete method to take as reference, apart from your "Introduction to Lute Playing" which now is probably a little old. So one must refer to several different sources difficult to find. Are you planning to fill this gap? A) I first wrote this book "An introduction to Lute Playing" nearly 25 years ago. A great deal more has been learned about technique since then. I have myself read a very great deal more than I had at that time. I have come to an agreement with Schott, the publishers of that book, to revise and enlarge that book and I hope that it will be far more complete method for instruction on the lute. Q) Do you find any difference in playing guitar and lute regarding the left hand? A) There seems to be a considerable difference of opinions among guitar players about the best position of the left hand. But I agree with those guitar players who feel that the arm should be held loosely and in a relaxed position with the thumb taking no strain at all on the back of the neck, and the fingers dropping in a natural way over the top of the strings. In my opinion, the less force is used on the strings of the lute, the better. The tension on a good lute should be very low, therefore the least amount of pressure necessary should be used to stop the strings. Guitar players, when they change to the lute, are inclined to use too much strength in the left hand in pressing down the strings, because of the different tension of the strings between lute and guitar strings. But the left hand of the lute should be very relaxed and move with the greatest ease . The movement itself across the six courses and indeed on the Baroque lute from the first to the seventh, eight or even the ninth course, the whole movement should come in a very, very small form right from the shoulder down to the elbow and the wrist and to the fingers. Q) Transcriptions versus tablatures. Nowadays there is an overflowing mass of transcriptions, most of them with no tablature attached, so one can't really have an idea of their fidelity or original ornaments. Under your guidance in Urbino we have seen how easy and better is to read directly from tablatures. Do you find that this mass of transcriptions is really necessary? A) Nowadays, nearly all lute players prefer to play directly from the tablature. It tells them much more about what their fingers have to do on the lute. Most good editions, these days, have both tablature and transcription. This happens if it is necessary, for instance, to collect together from a number of different sources, the works of a composer. Otherwise, if it is a complete book of music of one composer, many publishers now are producing facsimile editions which lute players appreciate very much. Some people find very useful to have transcription, otherwise they won't be able to realize what the various voices in the contrapuntal structure, are doing. However, when you become experienced in playing the lute, you begin to realize quite clearly how these voices move. There are many helpful instructions in the early books on how to play the lute and which voice you should hold. For instance Besardus always says the bass is the most important voice to hold. He says that if you have to let go any one string, let it be the one that is holding a middle voice rather than the bass. He says even let go a string on the top course rather than let go of the bass. What they do tend to say in these books is that wherever your finger is on a string, you must leave it there until it's necessary to take it up again for another note on the same string. Of course this, with our modern covered strings for the lower courses, doesn't really apply, because the sound continues much longer than it did with the gut strung instruments. So, if you know the harmonic structure and how this should be dealt, you are not baffled by which note should be held and which voices be allowed to die away. Q) Of course, since most singers can't read from tablatures, transcriptions are necessary for songs, aren't they? A) Not only most singers can't read from tablature, but also they like to know what their accompanist is doing, which is very natural for a singer to do, so they need a transcription. But in this case it's always better to have also the facsimile together. I have found sometime transcriptions which have been considerably altered in one way or another in comparison with the original. Either they have notes left out or the transcriber thinks he knows better than the composer and has added notes. I could mention several of these cases, but is tactful not to do so. If people want to produce their own transcriptions, they should either give together the tablature so that the player knows how much and where the transcription has been altered, or if they don't want to do so, they should indicate wherever they have made alterations. Q) In the past many lute players use to come from the guitar world (in the guitar circles in Italy they used to say that a lute player is usually what remains from a failed guitar player). However is it correct now to say that this not true anymore? A) I think many lute players now come to the lute because they want to play the kind of music written for the lute on the instrument for which it was written. I have found in Italy a very genuine wish to understand the lute and its technique and to get away from this idea that it's good enough to play the lute [repertoire] on the guitar. There is one thing I should like to say about the early technique of keeping the thumb inside the hand. It is the only way I know in which a guitar player who wants to keep his nails long can play the lute in a satisfactory way. Because of this old position, the nail is not brought into direct contact with the string. The almost parallel position of the hand with the strings means that the finger, all the time, is touching the string with the flesh, rather than with the nail and both here, in Italy, where I have shown guitar players how to do this, and among my own students at the Royal College of Music in London, I have found that this works. This is the only way I have found that works and the only way a player can treat the two instruments as being totally separate and using a totally different technique for each one of them. In this way it's quite possible for a guitar player to become a good lute player without having to give up his guitar playing. Q) With the big success that the lute is having now in the musical world, is there not a danger to lose the intimacy of its voice? How can it keep its sweet voice in too large halls, with a too large audience with an amplification which necessarily alters its tone color? A) It's true that the lute can't be used in a very large hall. In fact I have played the lute in the Albert Hall in London, but of course using a very great degree of amplification and it was in a pageant where I think the appearance of the instrument was more important than the sound. But it was tremendously amplified and of course the voice of the lute lost most or all of its quality. Normally the lute sounds best in a relatively small hall. The Purcell Room in London is for example a very good hall for the lute. It can be played satisfactorily there, as well as in the Wigmore Hall. Probably the Queen Elizabeth Hall in the complex of the Festival Hall is the maximum size one should expect to use a lute. Otherwise if you go a little larger you have to use amplification and the intimate sound of the lute tends to get lost. Q) Is there any evidence of the lute being played for audience of hundreds of people in the old times? A) It's difficult to say how many people were present at these banquets where great players played, but there is a very beautiful description of Francesco da Milano being invited to play at a very big banquet that was given. In this description it is said that he came into the room and he sat on the end of the table and began to play. Gradually the mode in which he was playing lulled all the hearers into a kind of lethargy and they sat with their hands supporting their heads and they were almost sleepy. He then changed the mode and woke them all up into a kind of joyful euphoria, and I think this is a great tribute to the skill of his playing, that by his change of mode in this way and the beauty of his playing, he could so greatly affect the audience. Q) Mrs. Poulton, I have had the great privilege of hearing the beautiful sound of your lute. I know you gave your last performance five years ago, in London. There is any hope to hear you again in concert sometime somewhere? A) The problem is that I have too much to do. I have spent so much of my life trying to find out about the lute and how it should be played and about its music and now it's time to hand that over to other people. For this purpose I'm writing a book about the lute and its music, its technique and ornamentation. I have also this work of producing a new edition of the song book of John Dowland. Also I have to write the revision of the book of instructions for the lute I wrote about 25 years ago. I have a lot of books given to me for review and I have many students. This doesn't leave me much time to devote practicing the lute. So I think I will no play in public anymore. Q) "Mrs. Lute" (after all, if they call F. Sinatra "The Voice", I think that you deserve to be called this way), I can't find the words to express my appreciation and thanks for your kindness and patience. I will not miss any possible occasion to come and see you in London and enjoy again the great privilege to hear again the beautiful sound of your lute and your voice again. Every time you talk to me, I feel like the audience of Francesco da Milano, completely fascinated, enthralled. In my imagination Lute playing has always been associated with Art and Poetry, with Angels and Heaven, with God. You have enforced this image. Thank you. /-----------------------\ This interview has been never published before. For some time I did not find the right magazine and then I treasured it so much that i did not even try. For some years after the interview, every time I had to go to London for business (it happened about a couple of times per year, up to the beginning of the 80's) I did not fail to visit Mrs. Poulton, have dinner with her and spend an evening together chatting away about the lute, Dowland, her life, her works.. One time I asked whether she had ever seen John Dowland in her dreams. She told me that she had even received a card from him with his photo and signature. She showed me the card and told me that at that time she was really amazed and confused, until she soon discovered this was a joke by one of her friends. The last time I saw her, she told me in a very simple and natural way that in a few years time she would expect to pass away. I said that if it's true what every religion says, that the death doesn't really exists and that it's merely a passage to a new spiritual life, a life more full and more real than this one, if this is true, this would mean only that she soon would not only meet, but even play together with John Dowland, surrounded by real angels, for the joy of an Heavenly audience. Diana closed her eyes and smiled. This is the last image of her that I keep in my memory. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I.3 -- About DIANA POULTON (quoted from the article by David Scott in the New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians, reprint 1995, vol XV, pg. 169) Diana Poulton (1903 - 1995). English lutenist. She studied at the Slade School of Fine Art (1919-23) and was taught the lute by Arnold Dolmetch (1922-25). From 1927 she often performed at the Haslemere Festival as soloist and in lute ensembles. She was one of the first professional English lutenists in the 20th century, and on the formation of the Lute Society in 1956 was elected its chairman, and subsequently (1973) its president. In 1971 she was appointed the first professor of the lute at the Royal College of Music of London. Her chief preoccupations have been the history of lute technique and the music of Dowland. Her book on Dowland ("John Dowland", Faber and Faber, London 1972) and her edition (with Basil Lam) of his music ("The Collected Lute Music of John Dowland", Faber Music Limited, London 1974) provided for the first time material for a full assessment of the composer. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I.4 -- About me (Corrado Alba) Before retiring I was the Technical Director and responsible for Europe, Africa and Middle East of a Multinational US Company (PPG INDUSTRIES of Pittsburgh, one of the top world chemical and glass companies). The guitar and the lute have always been my hobby, or better, my passion. I studied the guitar with Ben Czulovsky and obtained the "Compimento Inferiore" in guitar at the Conservatorio G. Verdi of Milan (Italy). As you already know, in 1977 I followed the lessons given by Diana Poulton at the early music summer course of Urbino. I kept in touch with her for many years, following her suggestions and advices. I traveled very much in USA, Europe, and China, always mixing my business interests with my musical ones (attending as many concerts of the top guitar/lute virtuosos as I could...). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Part II -- Jokes from the Internet: ****** WHOSE JOB? ****** This is a story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody. There was an important job to be done, and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that, because it was Everybody's job. Everybody thought Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it. It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Part III -- About FEDERICO MARINCOLA I live at the border between France and Italy, but I spend a lot of time traveling around to play my concerts and to teach. Usually I have a quite tight schedule, but, if you contact me well in advance, I might be available for recitals and seminars, or for collaborations with professional renaissance and baroque ensembles. Here are my addresses and phone numbers: email: marincola@yahoo.com Lute Page: http://www.marincola.com snailmail: CP 50, 18039, Ventimiglia (IM), Italy French Tel. + 33.4.93356658 Italian mobile + 39.347.7309321 Here is my CV. If you want to check my complete discography, see some press reviews etc, you are warmly invited to visit my Lute Page at http://www.marincola.com ----- Curriculum Vitae ----- Born in Rome, Federico Marincola studied classical guitar with Sergio Notaro, later specializing in the lute with Diana Poulton. Having won a grant from the Dutch Government, he studied with Anthony Bailes at the Sweelinck Conservatorium of Amsterdam. Another grant from the British Council enabled him to study with Jakob Lindberg at the Royal College of Music in London, where he obtained a Performer diploma in lute, a second diploma in early music and the Certificate of Advanced Study. He completed his training with Nigel North and Christopher Wilson. In the last twenty years, Federico Marincola has been very active as a performer. He has given many solo recitals and played with singers and early music groups all over Europe. In 1986, he toured as a soloist in India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. He is also in demand as a "basso continuo" player, and has played in many baroque operas at some of the most famous opera theaters of Italy (Teatro alla Scala, Milan; Teatro dell’ Opera, Rome; Teatro Massimo, Palermo; Teatro Comunale, Florence; Teatro San Carlo, Naples...). He has made more than twenty CDs with orchestras and small groups, and has broadcasted in Italy, Switzerland, Yugoslavia, the Vatican, India and Shri Lanka. With "Verany Disques - Arion", he recorded a CD of pieces from the "Vincenzo Capirola Lute Book" in 1992 (PV793012), a CD of pieces for lute and renaissance guitar by the French composer Guillaume Morlaye in 1993 (PV794052) and a third CD of lute pieces by Anthony Holborne in 1995 (PV795112). These solo recordings have been very positively welcomed by the international press ("5 Diapasons" to Capirola and Morlaye, "5 Diapasons" and "10 by Repertoire" to Holborne). Federico Marincola, who is also one of the founders of the Societa' Italiana del Liuto, uses an instrumental technique which is based on several treatises and iconographical sources from the 16th and 17th centuries. He believes that, to give a convincing performance of this repertoire, it is of paramount importance to have a profound knowledge of the original fingerings and criteria of interpretation. He also finds ideas and inspiration for the performance of early music in certain aspects of the philosophy and astrology of the Renaissance period. In the last few years he has also turned his attention to the study of social science: he is convinced that the sociology of music can be a great help in understanding the "spirit of the age" in which the different repertoires were produced. In 1994 he was highly commended for his thesis on the Jesuit opera Apotheosis sive Consecratio SS. Ignatii et Francisci Xaverii (1622) by Hieronimus Kapsberger, which earned him his degree in Sociology at the University of Urbino. He teaches the lute and the early guitars at the "Academie de Musique" of Monaco-Montecarlo. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Part IV -- A lute piece by John Dowland: "Can She Excuse" This was one of Diana's favorite pieces. It's very beautiful, and most useful if you want to practice the ornaments. Enjoy :-)! To turn this Tab source script into a beautiful tablature you should: 1) copy the following script and paste it in an ascii editor (like the notepad of windows), saving it as "dowland.tab" (or "anything-you-like.tab"). 2) open the new tab file with one of the following programs (you will find the files or the links in my Lute Page at http://www.marincola.com): *Tabdos by Wayne Cripps* *Fronimo by Francesco Tribioli*, for win 3.1 and win 95 *String Walker for win 95*, by Alain Veylit ***************** GOOD LUCK ;-)))! ************************** ----------cut here------------------------------------------------------------------------ -t -f {Can She Excuse/John Dowland} b 2. dc 3 a. 2 b&#: x d. xf# x c&# b 1.db d&{ 2b xa x d} b 2ab d xd. xca d xa. x dd a x b&# b 2 a x ac&# x c x d. 1 ac&# a b 2da x c xabd a 2.b&# da 3a. 2 dba d b 1.ab&#b d&{ 2 d.} x bd a 3 a x b. b b 2 dda x b.&# x a&{ x ad x c# x d} b 2 a x c&#d x c&{ x d.} 1 c&#dc bb 2 dca 3 a x b. x d xa. xc. xd 2f: x c&# b 2db d&{ 3a xb. xd xb. xa x d. x b x a. x b x d.} b 3a d xc. 2d: 3 d xc. 2a: 3 a x d. 2 b&#: b 2 a a 3 d x b. x a x d. x c x a. 1 c&# b b 3d c xb. xa x d. 2abd a 3b a xa. x d x b. 2 dba d b 2ab d&{ 3 b x d. xa xb. xd xa.} xb a xa. x d x b. b 3 a a x d. x c x a. x c a x d. x a x c. x d xa. xc xe. b 3f a xa. xd xc. xa x d. x c x a. 1 d bb 2.aac&#c&{ 3 d 2aac&#} x a xa d x c&# b 1a#bd a 2aa c e 2 bd a xa xc b b 1.dab d 2a b d x bdd x d b 1aac&#c&{ 2 a x d. xa xc.} b 2da x c xabd a 2.b da 3a. 2 dba d b 1.ab&#b d 2d. 1b&#dda b 1aa c xff d&{ 2 d# xh} b 1e&#ff a 0a*f bb b 2 acc&{ 3 b x d. 2a:} x a x d x c&# b 2 a xabd xaa c e 3 a x a. x b x d. xa xc. b 2dab d&{ 3a xc. 2d:} xa d 3 b d&{ x a. x b x d.} b 1aac&#c 2 a 3 d x a. x b x d. xa xc. b 3d c&{ xb. xa x d.} 2abd a 3b a xa. x d x b. 2 dba d b 2ab d&{ 3 b x d. xa xb. xd xa.} 2b# a xa. b b 2aa c&{ 3b xd.} 2f d 3 d x f. x g x f. x g x d. b 2.e&#a a 3f 2h xe 1af&# bb 2.a cd&{ 3 a. 2 b x d.} x d x b. b 1ab&# d 2 a: x d. x d x b. b 2.c&# aa 3 b. 2 d x a. x a x d. b 1c&#d a 2 b: x a. x a x d. b b 2.aacc 3 d. 2 a: x c. x bd x d. b 2.aacc 3 d. 2 bd x d. x adc x c&#. b 2. c&#d a 3 d c 2a e xc a x da c x c b 2 a x cd x c x d. 1 c&#dca bb 2.a cd 3 a. 2 b x d. x d x b. b 2.ab&# d&{ 4 a x b. 2 a x d.} x d x b. b b 2.c aa 3 b. 2 d x a. x a x d. b 2.cd a 4 b x d. 2 b x a. x a x d. b 2aac a 3 c x a. x c x d. x a: x c. x bd x a. x b x d. b 2.aacc&{ 3 d. 2 bd 3 d x b.} x a a x d. x c x d. b 3 c a x a. x c x d. 3a e x d. 2c&# a 3 d c&{ x a 2 c&#} b 2 a x cd x c x d. 1 c&#d b B e ---------------------- cut here -------------------------------- ######### end of the "LuteBot Quarterly" #6, Spring 1999 ########## (by Federico Marincola )